Wednesday, March 3, 2010

New PTR build = Feral wags

I didn't have a topic readily in mind this morning, so I did my usual perusal of, my blogroll, and MMO Champion to see what what's being discussed. This last source dropped a bit of a bombshell in the form of Druid changes on the new PTR build.
  • Mangle (Bear) now increases the damage of bleed effects for 1 min. (Up from 12 sec)
  • Mangle (Cat) now increases the damage of bleed effects for 1 min. (Up from 12 sec)
Holy geez!

Now, for Bears, this isn't a huge deal. Since the tanking rotation is pretty small and simple, I don't see this changing much. What it does do that's really nice is allow us to not have to fret about Mangle dropping if one fails to land.

For Keeping the Mangle debuff up is one of the most complicated parts of our rotation. You always, always, always want to make sure your target has a Mangle debuff before you apply either Rip or Rake. And Mangle is not a particularly low-energy cost ability.

Previously you could maybe get by using this every other rotation. It depends on how much you're critting. Now you'll be able to go an average of 8-10 rotations between every Mangle. That's more Shreds, and that's huge.

I'll probably wait for the people over on EJ to do the number crunching for me and then just pass it on to you. But That's going to be a big boost. I may have to do a PTR copy tonight and do some comparisons to post tomorrow. I'm all giddy at the thought, though.

Additionally, this change could free up talent points spent in Improved Mangle, as we'll be using it much less frequently. Similarly, you may choose to spend fewer in Ferocity as well, although Rake will still be big in our rotations, so maybe not.

Beyond just us, though, Rogues and Warriors should be very excited about this change as well, as Bleeds are a decent part of their damage rotations. Now when we're stuck in high-mobility fights there's less of a chance that the Mangle debuff will drop off the target, which means more damage for them. Everybody likes big numbers!


  1. Thanks for the post/info. This is VERY interesting news!

    It always seems like Mangle is an energy hog for cats, although it's preferable to the alternative (not using it = lower dps). Our rotations should get a little easier if this change goes live, and while I love the challenge of the feral rotation, I confess that the possibilities of a 1-minute Mangle debuff excite me. More Shreds! Woo hoo!

    Thanks again.

  2. I was actually looking at your old speccing post (, to see what you said about the relative value of infected wounds, etc to figure out how to spend my freed-up improved mangle points... and pop! I see this new post about the mangle changes. I'm so freakin excited to not have to reapply stupid mangle all the time. Unglyphed... this is a 400% increase in duration (see, I can do the maths too.)

  3. Makes me wonder what they'll change Glyph of Mangle to. Would it be too much for ask for something that refreshes or extends the duration of rip and/or rake? :P

  4. For Rip we already have Glyph of Rip that extends it 4 seconds. And Glyph of Shred can extend it up to another 6 seconds. So I doubt we'll see more there.

    I think if they upped the duration of Rake, our DPS would actually drop. Shred would then figure too heavily into our rotation. For as much energy as it costs, we'd be spending too much time just sitting there auto-attacking. We still need a reasonable way to build CPs somewhat quickly.

  5. @ Saniel's response to Aanye:

    I agree. Here's another thought about a possible extension of the duration of Rip:

    It's difficult to say without trying it, but combining the recently announced change with an even longer Rip could make for a frustrating rotation. I've found that, since putting together the Glyphs of Rip and Shred, I have to perform a little balancing act at times with the rotation, depending on how the CPs work out.

    Sometimes, I find that I'm sitting at 5CPs and I need to re-apply Rip NOW so that I can get a Savage Roar renew before it runs out, and then build up to the 5CP Rip again... but I'm stuck in the the situation where I get the "A more powerful spell is already active" alert when trying to re-apply Rip...

    So I guess what I'm saying is that, if they added 4-6 seconds more to Rip, it could put you in a situation where you have to make a choice:

    1. 5CP SR now, Rip runs out as you build up to 5CP for a new Rip (which could mean Rip is down for 6-10 secs depending on your energy/crit/clearcasts)


    2. wait for Rip to expire (meanwhile, SR runs out >.<), apply 5CP Rip with no SR up, wait a couple secs, get a CP or two, wait a couple more secs, SR (finally), etc...

    Neither is desirable.

    Or maybe I'm wrong and it would merely require more of an adjustment to rotation strategy (3-4CP SRs for longer coverage during CP builds to a 5CP Rip, for instance).

    I'm curious to see what happens. Sorry this was long-winded! :P